Miss Fran Still Sees You

With these magic words, she changed the way kids watched TV across Kansas.

“Romper, stomper, bomper boo, tell me, tell me, tell me do. Magic mirror tell me today, did all my friends have fun at play…”

Miss Fran, the beloved hostess of “Romper Room,” is more than just a face on the screen. In real life, she is former Wichita schoolteacher Fran Lee, whose impact reaches far beyond the TV show’s playful jingles.

I had the opportunity to talk with Miss Fran from her home in Topeka.

The phone was answered by a yelping dog.

Jazzer or Speedy Pie as I like to call him is almost 15 years old.

He’s very lively for his age. The big doggy. It’s a good age for a dog.

Once Jazzer settled down, we began to talk about Miss Fran’s childhood.

My parents, Houston Race Snow and Loretta Marie grew up in Sand Springs, Oklahoma. They went to high school together. After they graduated, they started dating and eventually got married. They were married for 50 years.

Did you have a good childhood?

I had a great childhood, very fortunate, growing up in Tulsa and attending Whittier School. In kindergarten, I participated in what was then called ‘expression’ at a lady’s house, where my friends and I underwent weekly quizzes on memorized material, an early introduction to performing. My parents believed that memorization enhanced learning.

I had good grades in high school, and I knew that I probably would be working most of my college time, so I took a lot of secretarial classes.  Plus, I went to summer school, so I got my other requirements.  I also could take shorthand at 120 words a minute. But my hardest class was typing, I couldn’t get my fingers to do what I told them to do. I graduated from Will Rogers High School, with honors.

What did you do after high school?

In 1954, I enrolled at Graceland University. Within the first two weeks, during a get-acquainted period, I met Claude Lee and fell head over heels for him. We dated throughout those two years.

Upon graduating from Graceland, Claude headed to the University of Wichita, while I pursued studies at the University of Tulsa. That summer, he worked in the forests around Yosemite, planting trees, while I worked as a secretary at the Presbyterian church in Tulsa.

Securing a full scholarship at the University of Tulsa for speech and language studies, I cherished every minute of it and embraced sorority life. Despite the distance, Claude and I stayed connected.

We got married in 1958, and Claude was still at University of Wichita.

I got a job with Helen Crockett at the University. I was able to take courses for half price and Claude’s tuition was also half price since I worked at the university.

Tell me about your and Claude’s family.

In 1963, our son Mike was born, and we welcomed our daughter Anne Marie through adoption, who is two years younger than Mike. That completed our family with two wonderful children.

What did you do after you graduated from University of Wichita?

I taught at Cloud Elementary for two years, instructing a mixed class of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders. During this time, I utilized my training in individual education plans (IEPs) and worked with special education students. I also taught at Knight Elementary.

How did you end up on Romper Room?

In 1969, I auditioned for Romper Room after Claude suggested it during breakfast. Despite over 800 candidates, I made the first and second cuts. During auditions, I played with children and even did a commercial.

I already had a teaching contract at Kellogg Elementary before I auditioned for Romper Room.

Claude and I talked about it. The teaching contract would have helped us financially. We talked about how many children I could influence. Not influence but could teach to go to school and to play and to be good kids versus how many I could reach in a classroom. Of course, there was no comparison.

The station sent me to Boston to train for the show. That was an experience. First of all, I’d never flown on a plane, and I had never stayed in a hotel.  If we traveled, we stayed with family or in low-budget motels.   It was quite an eye-opening experience for me to be in Boston for a week and a half. They trained me, 8 or 9 hours a day for 8 days.

I learned all the songs from the gal who wrote them for the show. The daughter of Romper Room’s creator taught me timing, scheduling, and practicing the different segments of the show, like bend and stretch, all the activities, the calendar, the storytelling, the participation of the children, and dessert time and it all kind of came together.

Were you nervous about the 1st show you did?

I was nervous before every show. It’s just part of it, I guess. Romper Room was a 27-minute show, and everything went in 2-minute segments. The children were the ones who set an example for others watching at home, showing how well they played with others, sat at the table, listened and answered questions.

So, those things became part of a small child’s life before they got to kindergarten. I think it was really a pre-preschool. It taught about being a good DoBee, not a don’t be, and the difference between good and bad. Many different values came along with teaching that program.

What was the crew like on Romper Room?

The cameramen played an integral role in Romper Room, learning to anticipate our moves during activities like rolling the ball or bending and stretching. Although not on-screen, they were crucial in ensuring the safety of the children and me. It was a learning experience for everyone, particularly the children.

Our director, was exceptional. He knew the ins and outs, anticipating my actions effortlessly. Working with him was a joy. The crew, including the cameramen, built a strong rapport in the control room.

I never had any problem with any of the children, except one time, the cameraman was teasing a little boy, and the boy kicked the camera guy in the leg.

Were there some other fun moments in the live TV days?

There were many fun times

We were doing a segment on going to the doctor.  One little boy raised his hand and came over to me.  He says, “I went to the doctor, and I got an ouchy.” And I said, “You did? Do you know what an ouchy is?”

He said, “Yeah.  Let me show you.” And he started to undo his pants.

The boy had just been circumcised. And I knew exactly what he was doing. I stepped between him and the camera. In other words, the viewers saw my back as I bent over and said, “That’s a bad ouchy.”

One year at Halloween the crew decided to prank me. We were on the air, and I was getting ready to use the magic mirror.  The crew had strung a fake Tarantula from the boom mic and dropped it right in front of me. I fell back against the set. Of course, they went to black immediately. And it was instant tears for me.  They just totally got me and then they felt really bad about it.

They never tried anything like that again. I was afraid it scared the kids. But they just crowded around me, like they were gonna protect me from the spiders.

One morning after the show, the parents came to the studio to get the kids. The crew was waiting for just the right moment. Someone said, Miss Fran, smile for the camera. I turned around and whack a pie right in the face.

There was a show where I picked up the magic mirror, and it was covered in saran wrap. When I realized the crew was pranking me, I just said, “oh my goodness. I think I left my magic mirror somewhere.” I turned and talked straight to the camera. “Well, you be good DoBees, and I’ll see you tomorrow, and I’ll find my magic mirror by then.”

During the magic mirror segment, I would take names from the letters received and put them on an 8.5 by 11 sheet to acknowledge the children. Once, a crew member lit the paper on fire, so I had to start reading quicker. I did get through the names before both lists were up in flames. The kids didn’t even realize what had happened.

Speaking of the Magic Mirror how did you use it to connect to the audience?

It was a television trick. I had a mirror that was enclosed, and when I held it up to my face, the camera would go fuzzy. I’d pick up the open mirror and put the other one under my desk. That’s how I could see all the kids. ‘Magic mirror tell me today, did all my friends have fun at play?’ Then, I’d start reading the names of all the ones who had written to me that week. I tried to mix in all kinds of names, not just the ones from letters, so I wasn’t always calling Mary or Joe. I ended up calling as many names as I could think of.

How do you think the show’s message and lessons influenced the kids who watched it at home?

I believe they were engrossed in us and how other children responded to me and followed the directions. If we sat down, I think they sat down at home. I didn’t just talk to the children; I would talk to their mother, father, the babysitter, or grandma—whomever was there with the child watching.

I ran across an interview that you did with the Wichita Eagle, and you guys were struggling to get more minority kids on the show.

That’s right. We were struggling to get more minority kids on the show. I reached out to some friends in the Hispanic and Black communities in Wichita at that time. They became active in recruiting children to be on Romper Room. It was so important for all the kids to see themselves on TV, to understand that nobody was better than the other person. It was amazing how the children took care of it themselves. They didn’t even realize they were being asked to do something that had not been done before. They just went along with it.

I know you also tried to help out the poorer families too.

I had some friends who developed a program. If an eligible child lacked sufficient clothing, my friends ensured they were dressed appropriately.  They also worked with the parents to make sure the child didn’t feel out of place.

So, was there a long waiting list?

When I started, there was about a year and a half-long waiting list. I always received a lot of letters from mothers eager to have their children on the show. I even got a call from a mom in the hospital, in the midst of having a baby, expressing her desire to enroll her child in Romper Room once they were old enough.

Reflecting on her time with Romper Room in a 1969 interview with The Wichita Eagle, Fran shared, “I get about 250 pieces of mail a week, and if that sounds like bragging, it is. I’m very proud of that. The representative who comes around to check the show every two or three months has told me I get as much mail as does the New York teacher. Isn’t that great?”

You were at KAKE when they were a powerhouse station in Wichita.  Were you friends with any of the other on-air folks?

Jim O’Donnell and his wife Marilan were cherished friends of Claude and me. Our families were so close that they felt like an extension of each other. With two adopted children of their own and our adopted daughter and son, Mike, we formed a tight-knit bond.

Jim probably never met a person he didn’t like. He was always gracious and stood up for the underdogs. Together with Marilan, they were always happy and had a lot of fun together.

He used to do a personalized forecast for us when we traveled. He would give us the time so we wouldn’t hit any storms.

On the way there, it was it was marvelous. It was like, we knew we were gonna go through a little bit of rain, and then we’d have a dry spell.  We’d get through our travels without any problems because of his forecasts. He was just a kind soul.

Besides Miss Fran, you also played Mrs. Claus to Henry Harvey’s Santa.

Henry had contracts with every business in town to play Santa, and he asked me to play Mrs. Claus. So, I would dress up, read a little story, and bring the children up to the stage.

It was a fun time in western Kansas. The kids flocked to his visits. By the time we got there in the morning, the kids were lined up outside waiting for Santa, and I was in charge of all the stuff that he gave away. When I wasn’t Mrs. Claus, I was just his assistant, but the kids still called me Miss Fran.

After 13 years at KAKE, you decided to leave.  Why?

I decided to go back to school with a specific goal in mind. A friend’s son with Down Syndrome inspired me to bring inclusivity to Romper Room. We successfully included him on the show, and it sparked my determination to help more children with disabilities get the chance to be on Romper Room. So, I returned to Wichita State to make a difference.

Where did you end up after getting your degree at WSU?

I joined the Sedgwick County Special Education Cooperative based in Goddard. My work involved traveling across nine counties, collaborating with special needs children. I also worked with the teachers to address their concerns and problems, establishing a rapport that assured them it was private and confidential.

In 1982, you and Claude made a big move.  What happened?

Claude became Chief of Appeals for Kansas Unemployment, working with the Department of Labor. I stayed in Wichita to complete my contract with the Special Ed group, while I prepared our house for sale. Afterward, I moved the kids up to Topeka.

I understand you met a young, up and coming politician.

Yes, I had the opportunity to meet a young man who was destined to be President. We were at the elevator when it opened, and John F. Kennedy was there, just standing there. He knew my mother-in-law, and he shook her hand. I was flabbergasted when he shook my hand and introduced himself. He invited us to a reception after his speech.

Not long after, Kennedy showed up at the reception. Every time he looked my way, he smiled, and at one point, he even winked at me. It was quite a thrill because he seemed like a prince—really good-looking and just as nice as could be. Down-to-earth and impressive in every way.

And you met his brother along the way too?

Oh my. When Robert was going to announce that he was going to run for president, he invited our family to the formal announcement. There was a huge crowd. My father-in-law and Claude were with Kennedy when he came into the room. Afterward, I was holding Mike, and Mr. Kennedy patted him on the head. Mike was holding a big sign that said, ‘We need Kennedy.’ Robert said, ‘Here, let me sign that.’ I framed it, and it still hangs in my bedroom.

Tell me about Rosalyn Carter.

I met Rosalynn Carter at the airport, and it felt like I might as well not have been there. She just took over my kids, and they fell in love with her. That was fine with me because she was just so great. That night, she did a visitation down at Connie’s Mexico Café. Connie opened it up to everybody, and about 200 people showed up to meet Jimmy Carter’s wife. Rosalynn was just the most gracious person.

Speaking of politicians, did you ever run for office?

In 1994, I ran for Secretary of State, and it was probably the most exciting and rewarding thing I’ve done. People volunteered to drive me around in the ‘Fran Van,’ taking me to all corners of Kansas. I visited 85 counties out of the 105 in the state. While I carried the 4th Congressional District, I lost in Kansas City due to limited contacts in the metro area. Ron Thornburgh won that year.

Fran’s civic activities included serving as Chairman of the Board of Community Action, Inc. in Topeka and she served on the Topeka City Council from 1997 to 2001.

You also knew some of the state’s leaders.

I had the privilege of knowing some of the state’s leaders. The Dockings were just great people—caring, hardworking, and, to my knowledge, the most honest individuals I ever met. I also worked for the Carter campaign and served as the chair for Bill Roy’s campaign for representative.

When asked about mixing politics with Romper Room, Fran told The Wichita Eagle, “I never allow politics to enter the show, and likewise I never seek out anything political as Miss Fran of Romper Room.”

What would you like your legacy to be?

I’d like my legacy to be the pride that all those kids learned the Pledge of Allegiance. I hope to be remembered for fostering positive experiences in the lives of young people. Romper Room played a significant role in many children’s lives, and I believe it contributed to their positive memories of growing up. While I may not know the exact number of kids who watched it every day, I’m proud that an awful lot of children grew up with me.

On behalf of all the Wichita kids, thank you for doing that.

Nobody’s ever said that. I really do appreciate that. I’ve got a tear running down my face.

One last question, what would be your Christmas Wish for the kids of Kansas and their parents?

I’d wish for equal opportunities and fair pay for all families, ensuring no child grows up in poverty. Understanding the diverse sections of Wichita and extending it statewide has been a wonderful journey. During my run for secretary of state, meeting so many incredible people was a blessing.

When it comes down to it, my heart holds a special warmth for Wichita. If you ask me about my hopes for Wichita families and children, it’s a simple, heartfelt desire. In an ideal world, we’d all enjoy peace and equality in our communities. 

I know that sounds real hokey. But, I mean, we all depend on how well things go where we live. I would wish that they have peaceful and prosperous, not prosperous, but equal lives.

Claude passed away in 2021.

Miss Fran lives with Jazzer and her son, Mike, in Topeka.

Several Romper Room teachers served before and after Miss Fran Lee, including Miss Barbara Bailey, Miss Beverly Croskery, Miss Mary Ann King, and Miss Marti Watson Garlett, who was the final host of Romper Room from 1977 to 1986.

Miss Fran’s legacy lives on, not just in the memories of Romper Room viewers but in the impact she continues to make in her community and beyond. Whether through the TV screen or in her civic endeavors, Miss Fran still sees you…

Special thanks to Suzi, Miss Fran’s sister-in-law, Mike Lee, Mike Rajewski and Cassidy Sutton at KAKE, and most importantly… Miss Fran.

To learn about other interesting people in your neighborhood check out The People That Meet.